A Reluctant Activisit

Despite the fact that I stand up for my beliefs firmly… These conversation on Facebook I had, leaves me feeling hopeless… Despite any solid argument, people will let their emotions and religion overrule free reasoning and logic, ethical and moral common sense…

Post Content: by Neal Rice
“Our uniform doesn’t define us as Scouts Canada members. We define ourselves through our actions and values. We don’t need a tan shirt on our backs to know that we are part ofthe largest and best youth development organization in the world. It’s time to… accept the reality of change, and get the focus back on providing adventurous, educational programs to more youth across Canada.” –Tyler Arrell

Response: by Randall Bull
The Unifrom can mean a lot though I liked it better when it was boy scotus of canada to be honest of course in the USA we strill are the BSA I have a lot of the old strips which say boy scotus of Canada i think that is more what baden poweell meant us to be

My Response:
I disagree Randall. Scouting is about learning about the world around us and making positive change in ourselves, our communities, and others. How does being a girl inhibit someone from living up to that ideal? How does a piece of clothing define those principles? Of course we need to be proud of our accomplishments, but real value comes out of the actions that we carry out rather than dwelling on what we’ve already done!

Response: by Randall Bull
And how does being around just other guys make things bad we have became usch a society that worries about things being right and correct we forget to teaach our guys to just bond as males and not have to worry about the other things
sorry LDS hgere
ran

My Response:
There’s some merit to that perhaps, but I think we need to approach that from a different perspective. I don’t think it’s a sense of trying to be politically correct. It’s more of being in a situation where you have a large social groups (genders, religions, sexualities, ethnicities, financial abilities, disabilities) who see the immense value in the Scouting Programme. If we were to stay as a male-only organization, we are put in a situation of denying the services of and participation of large groups of society that see value in our programme. We would be denying membership to people who share our ideals. Why? Who are we to say that these people are any less capable of doing good works, and effecting positive global and local change through the largest youth movement in the world? On the same note, by doing so we would be undoubtedly preventing extremely capable, motivated, and inspirational people from building their character and leadership abilities through Scouting!

Response: by Randall Bull
I think it is a great thing being able to just be guys and ti works well for us in the BSA and dont get mad about this but I have watched us grow year after year and canada just isnt doing it they have became so pilitcally correct it is choking them to death

My Response:
 

I have no doubt it works well. It’s based on Scouting’s principles. If those weren’t successful, then the movement wouldn’t be as large and successful as it is. That doesn’t mean however that we can’t open up those principles to all members of our society. You are suggesting that females are a detriment to Scouting — that simply isn’t the case.

You bring up growth, and political correctness “choking us to death.” That statement simplifies a very complex issue. The facts are that 80% of WOSM-exclusive NSO’s are open to male and female (WOSM, 2010), and a majority of those NSO’s are actually experiencing growth. Take the United Kingdom as an example. They are experiencing waiting lists, and record registration numbers. They also serve as an example as to why Canada has faced decline in the PAST. The UK was able to evaluate their relevance and value in today’s society, and they made sweeping changes to better modernize and make the movement more relevant to modern youth. Canada is just starting this process ourselves, and over the past two years (since this process has started) we have had growth in our membership.

You can’t take two relatively un-related issues and use it to make the claim that females are a detriment to Scouting.

In terms of political correctness — if you are talking about socially just, then yes. I’m proud to say that Scouts Canada treats every citizen of Canada equally should they wish to contribute to the movement. Our anti-discrimination policy (http://sunshine.scouts.ca/bpp/Section%25201000.pdf) outlines a movement that is sensitive to the diversity of our soceity, and works to use that as our strength, and to realize that people from all walks of life have meaningful ways of contributing to creating a better world, building comradeship, learning about our differences, and creating active dialogue. These are steps to peace and understanding. I would suggest that all of the world’s conflict is built on ignorance and intolerance. If we all work to understand how we are different, we will be at the ready to understand context in what might have once been foreign cultural situations.

Response: by Randall Bull
This is not an arguement right a discussion and so what we want to stay the old ways and we continue to grow boys above all need to know how to be boys there is somuch cross gender stuff it is becoming to confusing and god dont get me started on quebec where everything is becoming so politically corect scouting almost died while the asc is staying the same God should be in socuting also but I dont care about the WOSM if I had my way we wouldnt help them at all since they moved the headquesters. People need seperation of guys and girls period and we do fine that way. Do it your way and sooner or latter you will die on the vine people need good ole fashoined scouting let the schools do the rest badly. And if they keepo pushing many of your western OLDS troops will leave and make a new assocation

My Response:
This isn’t an argument in the sense that I’m worked up and getting angry, but I would say it is an argument on the grounds that we have what seems to be a disagreement and I’m stating my evidence lol.

In my experience, and would suggest that in human history, a resistance to social, societal or technological development is an ever-present part of the process, albeit a minority, a cautionary voice. It is simply within human nature to build. To develop, and to evolve. These concepts are intrinsic with every aspect of our lives. For example, if we enter a new career, perhaps taking over from a retired employee, we’ll likely be given a complete instruction on how things have been done in the past. Soon, as we become more comfortable in this position, we will find ways to improve what seemed to be an already functioning system. We will take what is strong and good about the past way, but build upon that with new ideas, new leaders, etc.

Socially though, there is no denying a need for “male bonding, ” and the development of same-gender friendships. These occur naturally, in any of our social involvements: in Scouting, in school, in life DESPITE the fact that we are surrounded by members of other genders. This also assumes a gender binary, and a constant physical-mental relationship between gender identity, which we know not to be the case with all people.

I won’t speak about Québec or L’association des Scouts du Canada, since I am not intimately familiar with them.

In terms of God. I have made no argument against spirituality. One of the core principles of Scouting is spirituality. And especially in today’s modern world, it is important to develop spirituality, and to learn about other types of spirituality, for the same reason that we must learn about any of our differences. This is what makes Scouting unique, and as important as it is.

You claim that people need separation of girls and guys. Why? Do we not want to learn about the “other?” If we cut ourselves off from any “other” in modern society, we become ignorant about them, we don’t understand them, and we jump to conclusions about them.

“People need good old fashioned Scouting.”

Scouting is a movement. Movements can be defined as “a series of actions advancing a principle or tending toward a particular end.” Movements evolve, meet needs, and change to suit their environments. Scoutings principles will remain the same, but the way in which they are delivered will change, and has changed, even in the BSA. If we become contented with our past, or if we settle for what we have, we cease to become a movement, we cease to develop and engage young leaders, and thus we fail in delivering on the core principles of Scouting. We would become a social club, slowly losing the interests of our nation’s youth as we fall further and further out of touch with their interests and culture.

You are right, there are those that resist change. Those that are subject to these advancements that may not agree with them. Any movements in the past have overcome this challenge though. Protestors to the civil rights movement of the United States gave way to a re-shaping of how your country treats citizens of different skins colours, the patriarchal societies gave way to the suffragettes when the British army in the Great war needed able bodied citizens. There are “Scouting” organizations that have left Scouting for these same reasons. Unfortunately they cease to be members of the Worldwide Brotherhood of Scouting, and can no longer call themselves Scouts.

In terms of the World Organization of the Scouting Movement, we have an organization here that represents over 28 million young people in 160 countries around the world, an organization that ENABLES cross-cultural dialogue, interaction, and cooperation. I don’t see how that is a failure by any means — it is an ever growing organization that represents (as I’ve said before) the largest youth movement the world has ever seen. An excellent tangible example of this exists at the Kandersteg International Scout Centre in Switzerland. I have been staff there two years, and have witnessed Scouts enjoy their commonalities from many different nationalities, including Americans - environments like these are perfect for learning about the way things are done elsewhere.

We can’t lose sight of the fact that we are developing. We can’t lose sight of the fact that we all indeed have something valuable to contribute, and that a man’s ideas might be better than a woman’s on a gender basis alone, or that any innate quality in any person has a direct affect on their competence. If political correctness means that I treat everyone with respect, am happy to learn about differences, and make new friends in new people from different places and backgrounds, then I’m happy to be a member of the World-Wide brotherhood of Scouting, an organization that holds that in the highest regard as a step to fostering peace and informed young leaders.

Response: by Randall Bull
So what your saying is we should forget baden poweel our founder whop made such statements as Girls should not not be Included and He WRote Scoutign for BOYs not boys and girls, and he helepd foundgirl guide or the fact that he says that Religion and the belieff in god must be a part of any boys life. That they shouildnt somke du drugs isnt a part and shoukldnt be one. ASince there is a huge erosion of the family which he was a staucnh supporter of then we should allow girls in we should bend the rules and forget god because thats what is happeniong and over and over again as scout canad has got more liberal and has lost memebership to the BP scouts ASC and npw a strpong movement for the LDS [Moman} chuch to slpit off for all the Liberal BS to take place thats just fine. You nop longer have a true sout orignzation in Canad you ahve one which is made to molify the liberal Canadian attitude. Well we are not and wont go that way we believe in scouting asd scouting not as the libreral morass of scouting in some countries. QWe believe boy should be boys and girls should be girls they should be in different orginzations where things pertaining to giuys can be discussed and things pertaining to girls could be discussed. Sexual habuits should be brought up in scoutign for Boys or girls but not together. No one up there seems to realize they are guys any more. 

I ended the conversation there… Arguing against such closed-mindedness is exhausting, and I felt reasonably happy that Randall’s own responses exposed this fact, and the general one-sidedness of this argument…

3 months ago  /  0 notes  /  Comments